Friday, November 05, 2004
Mea Culpa
Response to this post.
Sorry: apparently I didn't adequately paraphrase the values in Jody's dad's list. But ok, point by point:
1. The values of one culture are not mutually exclusive of the values of another culture. But that list implies that patriotism is a redneck value, not an American one. Look again:
you treat Viet Nam vets with great respect, and always have.
you've never burned an American flag.
This isn't exactly the same thing as saying that rednecks love their country. This is saying, "Unlike people who disrespected Viet Nam veterans and burned flags ***THE DECADENT COASTS*** rednecks are patriots."
2 a. According to the map Jody links to, North Dakota values religion more than any other state (which I think is probably true--if I lived in North Dakota, I'd believe there was a God, and He had it in for me). And New York values it more than Kansas, Missouri, Arizona, and Utah. California's up there at 19% (go CA!), but so is the whole southwest.
My own hostility to religion, which Jody brings up, is no doubt a product of my East Tennessee upbringing.
I do not, will not, and have not equated a respect for Christian traditions with the Taliban. You're conflating two issues here because you don't want to address the idea that the red states want to see more religion (and I mean protestant religion) in the public sphere. You can respect a tradition without enshrining it in the Pledge of Allegiance or plastering its commandments on government buildings. I'm not a nutjob: I don't want, say, the Supreme Court building torn down. And do whatever you want in your church. But putting up new monuments in government buildings? Not defendable. "Under God" as part of the pledge isn't a Christian tradition. It's an outdated fuck you to communism. If you haven't read the oral arguments from Elk Grove Unified v. Newdow, I urge you to, and understand this: Like Newdow, I live in a country in which I will never hold political office because of my beliefs. I reserve the right to be touchy about that. And which respects faith more, a secular state or school prayer? Remember this: any powers you give the government will one day be used by someone you disagree with.
I can't find good data about geographic distribution of U. S. military; I suspect that there are as many recruits from urban areas as the sticks, but can't find any data. I used to teach high school in an air force base town in Georgia; my students were military brats; I think the correlation you're looking for is not geography or culture but wealth. The poor volunteer more.
c) Blue staters speak their minds as often and as freely as rednecks, thanks. I deplore any politically correct assault on free speech as much as the next guy. But the South is hardly a beacon of free speech either.
d) Jody's implying here that I have less respect for my elders than the author of the list. Because I said "the old." Well, fuck that. I'm in better touch with my grandfather than I am with my parents; I'd estimate I talk to him about two hours a week.
e) The Generosity Index Jody links to was specifically designed to motivate Massachusetts residents to donate more. It's completely unscientific, only counts charitable donations listed as itemized tax deductions, and weights results against the relative wealth of states. So I don't think that passes the laugh test.
Valuing family: which states have more divorces? Which states do more young (and thus more likely to be unmarried) people emigrate to? Give me a break. You guys do not have a monopoly on virtue, no matter how much you'd like to think you do.
Now I have to go. But note that J. has said nothing about "not approving" of gays or church and state.
Comments(0) |
Sorry: apparently I didn't adequately paraphrase the values in Jody's dad's list. But ok, point by point:
1. The values of one culture are not mutually exclusive of the values of another culture. But that list implies that patriotism is a redneck value, not an American one. Look again:
you treat Viet Nam vets with great respect, and always have.
you've never burned an American flag.
This isn't exactly the same thing as saying that rednecks love their country. This is saying, "Unlike people who disrespected Viet Nam veterans and burned flags ***THE DECADENT COASTS*** rednecks are patriots."
2 a. According to the map Jody links to, North Dakota values religion more than any other state (which I think is probably true--if I lived in North Dakota, I'd believe there was a God, and He had it in for me). And New York values it more than Kansas, Missouri, Arizona, and Utah. California's up there at 19% (go CA!), but so is the whole southwest.
My own hostility to religion, which Jody brings up, is no doubt a product of my East Tennessee upbringing.
I do not, will not, and have not equated a respect for Christian traditions with the Taliban. You're conflating two issues here because you don't want to address the idea that the red states want to see more religion (and I mean protestant religion) in the public sphere. You can respect a tradition without enshrining it in the Pledge of Allegiance or plastering its commandments on government buildings. I'm not a nutjob: I don't want, say, the Supreme Court building torn down. And do whatever you want in your church. But putting up new monuments in government buildings? Not defendable. "Under God" as part of the pledge isn't a Christian tradition. It's an outdated fuck you to communism. If you haven't read the oral arguments from Elk Grove Unified v. Newdow, I urge you to, and understand this: Like Newdow, I live in a country in which I will never hold political office because of my beliefs. I reserve the right to be touchy about that. And which respects faith more, a secular state or school prayer? Remember this: any powers you give the government will one day be used by someone you disagree with.
I can't find good data about geographic distribution of U. S. military; I suspect that there are as many recruits from urban areas as the sticks, but can't find any data. I used to teach high school in an air force base town in Georgia; my students were military brats; I think the correlation you're looking for is not geography or culture but wealth. The poor volunteer more.
c) Blue staters speak their minds as often and as freely as rednecks, thanks. I deplore any politically correct assault on free speech as much as the next guy. But the South is hardly a beacon of free speech either.
d) Jody's implying here that I have less respect for my elders than the author of the list. Because I said "the old." Well, fuck that. I'm in better touch with my grandfather than I am with my parents; I'd estimate I talk to him about two hours a week.
e) The Generosity Index Jody links to was specifically designed to motivate Massachusetts residents to donate more. It's completely unscientific, only counts charitable donations listed as itemized tax deductions, and weights results against the relative wealth of states. So I don't think that passes the laugh test.
Valuing family: which states have more divorces? Which states do more young (and thus more likely to be unmarried) people emigrate to? Give me a break. You guys do not have a monopoly on virtue, no matter how much you'd like to think you do.
Now I have to go. But note that J. has said nothing about "not approving" of gays or church and state.
Comments(0) |
